New Matter: Inside the Minds of SLAS Scientists
New Matter: Inside the Minds of SLAS Scientists
Accessibility in the Lab | Embracing Identity and Authenticity with Ramisa Fariha (Sponsored by Benchling)
Ramisa Fariha, Ph.D. student at Brown University, joins Hannah to discuss her experiences and perspectives on diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) issues in the lab.
Ramisa shares her professional journey from Bangladesh to the United States and discusses how her various identities — including gender, race and religious background— have influenced her interactions and perceptions.
The conversation sheds light on the challenges individuals with intersecting identities face in navigating societal expectations and organizational structures, highlighting the importance of creating inclusive environments that accommodate diverse experiences and perspectives.
Additionally, she shares insights into her upcoming book, "What the Fari," which explores her journey from adversity to resilience and the importance of unapologetically being oneself.
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Hannah Rosen: 00:00:05 Hello everyone and welcome to New Matter, the SLAS podcast where we interview life science luminaries. I'm your host, Hannah Rosen, and today we are continuing our series discussing diversity, equity, and inclusion issues in the lab. Joining me today is Ramisa Fariha, PhD student at Brown University. Welcome to the podcast Ramisa.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:00:23 Thank you so much, Hannah. It's a pleasure being here.
Hannah Rosen: 00:00:25 We're so happy to have you. So, can you start us off with just providing us with a little bit of your professional background?
Ramisa Fariha: 00:00:32 Of course. So, hello everybody. My name is Ramisa Fariha. I use the pronouns she/her/hers, I am originally from Bangladesh. I was born and raised in a very small town called Narayanganj. I finished my advanced level degree, which is the GCE examination if you're familiar with the British Exam Board. And then I came to Penn State for my bachelor's in biomedical engineering. I graduated in 2017 and I went to work for ACell Incorporated in Columbia, Maryland at the headquarters, a company that's now acquired by Integra Life Sciences. And in 2018 I came to Brown University, I worked at the Lee Lab and the Morgan Lab for my master's in biomedical engineering. And then the pandemic happened. So, I graduated in the middle of the pandemic and then I joined the Tripathi lab where I'm currently pursuing a PhD.
Hannah Rosen: 00:01:29 Awesome. So, tell us a little bit about, you know, what has driven you to get so involved in different D, E and I initiatives?
Ramisa Fariha: 00:01:38 Okay, that's a very good question. So, um, I come from a culture that's just homogeneous. So, in Bangladesh, everybody's Bangladeshi, there's no, uh, so to say ethnicity, like differences by ethnicity or race. And so, I didn't realize I was falling under certain brackets until I officially moved to the U.S. So, when I first came in it, you know, I was quickly aware that my gender and my, you know, racial identity and my religious identity, they all played a crucial part on describing who I was and not just in case of, oh, this is Ramisa, she's from so and so pursuing this. But even when it was about, talking about physical appearance, you know, I remember when someone walked up to me and said, oh, so you were the person, you know, Dr. H was talking about, you know, the girl, the big eyes and the brown skin.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:02:37 And I was like, whoa, did not realize that my, my skin color played um, and that was so, you know, just realizing that my skin color had a role in describing who I was. And that was, again, my first two years of just being in the U.S. Um, and then it was kind of like, okay, so if I'm being aware of everything that's happening around me, what can I do to make sure those who come after me have a smoother transition? Because there are a lot of spaces where I had to go, I was the first one to knock on the door and open it for myself. But then it was like, okay, so if this is happening, what can those after me see when they come in and they have to identify marking certain check boxes? So that's basically how the journey started. Um, and also it was around when I was the first elected, um, female president for the Muslim Student Association at Penn State Behrend.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:03:36 And so that was a big shift because I don't usually wear the hijab and, you know, being the first elected female who doesn't wear hijab. And then, well, my first actions was onboarding a non-Muslim faculty advisor because she was just really interested in, you know, learning more about the organization and the Muslim lifestyle. And I was like, I would rather have her than a faculty advisor who's Muslim and not there proactively, um, advocating for us. And that was, you know, a big, uh, point of contention. But I think, um, it was that moment when I realized there was a lot of intersecting identity. So, so not that I was just getting identified as a Bangladeshi female, a Muslim, and a lot of other things, but also even within those, I had, um, different identities that set me apart. And so, it's been kind of a journey from there on to where I'm today.
Hannah Rosen: 00:04:39 That's so impressive that you, you know, came to the United States and recognized that you had all of these different identities that maybe you hadn't really felt beforehand. And instead of shrinking away from that you really, it seems like you really embraced it and said, okay, if this is the reality, let's do what we can with that, which is really impressive to me.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:05:01 Thank you.
Hannah Rosen: 00:05:03 So I understand that there's kind of a fun little history with, uh, your name and your family history with your name. So, can you tell us a little bit about, you know, the history behind how you got your name?
Ramisa Fariha: 00:05:15 Yes, absolutely. So basically, um, so I belong to the Choudhary family more specifically, um, I'm part of the Korean Choudhary family and there are only 10 million different Choudhary in the world, but my family has its own little branch and history and all of that. But basically, when I was born and every, you know, my siblings is a Korean Choudhary, my cousins are, you know, typical Korean Choudhary and all of that. So, everybody has the Korean Choudhary in their name, including my aunts, my my dad's, um, sisters, their maiden names were something Korean Choudhary. But then when I was born, the whole idea was, so my parents had a few things in mind. One was just making sure I am myself and so that I'd never needed a male identity, so to say, to create my own legacy. Um, you know, a lot of people end up changing their names after getting married, and you know that because, so my dad's idea is everything that I had, I would have achieved in life, they would all would've originated from who I was.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:06:30 It was all my hard work and what I was standing up for and that nobody had the right to just swoop in at the last minute and change all of that. But I think it, originally both my parents wanted me to have my own unique name without the family title so I wouldn't have to say, oh, I got so and so because I belonged to a certain family. Um, I had certain privileges or something like that. But it was more so you are a woman, you are the, and it's funny because I'm the baby in the family. I'm the only girl in my dad's side of the family. So, you know, that even makes everything more unique, um, because then because in, you know, traditional Bangladeshi culture, and now things are changing, but back in the day, you know, girls were not considered equal to, to the male counterpart.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:07:23 But, so in my case, they were like, nope, we are gonna have you name such that you are your own person. You do not, you are not never described, uh, and your name is ambiguous. So you know, Ramisa Fariha, unless you are from a specific part of South Asia, you wouldn't know that this is a South Asian or an Arabic name or it, it belongs to a lady because in America, when I say it, and that's why I have to always say, oh, my pronouns are so and so, because it's a unique name when you see it on a resume, you don't know if it's, you know, what the gender of this person is, what the race or ethnicity of this person is. Um, and so that was one unique aspect of it, but it was more so creating my own identity, creating my own legacy, um, and never letting, you know, a certain name, so to say dictate who I end up being, um, in the world. So that was how my name came to be. And it's funny 'cause every time we’re at immigration, uh, we would go through all our passports and say, oh, you know, AK Choudhary, Ellen Choudhary, and what do get, and I'll be like, I'm the daughter, and they're looking for the name, and that is not, that doesn't seem real. And I'm like, yeah, I'm unique, what can I say? And so that it's, you know, it's fun. And then, you know, just talking about the whole history of it.
Hannah Rosen: 00:08:55 Yeah, that's crazy. It sounds like your parents were very progressive for the time and place.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:08:59 And also, if you think about just putting things into perspective, Narayanganj is a small town. It's a small town, it's mostly business and industry focused. So, education really wasn't like, as big. And when my parents, so originally my dad's family is from, um, our state of Lakshmipur, which is, you know, a state that we own as a family. And when my grandpa first moved to Narayanganj, you know, the whole idea behind that was he wanted to pursue education, went to the University of Daka to get his degree. And he, you know, they, you know, both of my grandparents, they did a lot of, um, education initiatives, uh, within my hometown, as did my, as you know, my parents have continued to do so. And so, you know, learning has been a big part of like, our family culture in general.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:09:54 And so that's why we've been doing a lot of unique things that are not often well received by society at large. But, you know, people are catching up. I'm very proud of it. I haven't been home in five years now, but people are eventually catching up to what we've been doing. Uh, but yes, and when I was younger they let me dress androgynously, which is also fun. Um, a lot of people had no idea that my parents had a girl. They thought they had two boys. Um, I, and so, and I had a fake name too. I went by the name of Bollywood actor, Shadowkhan. And to this day, a lot of people <laugh> call me Shadowkhan, you know, um, they'll, a lot of my, you know, kindergarten teachers, they, they'll still call me Shadowkhan 'cause they'll forget what my real name was 'cause I was just dress up like a dude, had the spikes and, and all of that jazz.
Hannah Rosen: 00:10:51 That's awesome. <laugh>. So, you know, you've got so many different identities that, you know, and when you think about yourself in the context of the United States, and you know, it's very common with D,E and I initiatives that focus on self-identification through, you know, certain like, check boxes of a predetermined identity category of, you know, a specific ethnicity or gender. From your perspective, what is, is there value in using some of these identification categories and then maybe, you know, what could be some of the drawbacks to these defined boxes?
Ramisa Fariha: 00:11:36 Um, that's, um, uh, that's an excellent question, Hannah. So, um, what I think it has, they both have their advantages and advantages, right? So, if I'm looking from an organization point of view, knowing if someone matches certain check boxes, it's good for me in terms of statistics. Oh, my company is composed of 45% women, or I have 20% employee with certain disabilities and things like that. It's good. And in a lot of cases, you know, companies will do things or organizations will do things to accommodate for it. But at the same time, if you look at from the other side of the table, if I'm trying to check certain boxes, um, a lot of the times, you know, not just me, but I'm speaking for a lot of people who have intersecting identities, is we feel cornered and we feel forced to identify certain ways because we are like, oh, where's the spectrum?
Ramisa Fariha: 00:12:34 We're part of a massive spectrum. So just a couple of days ago, one of my international friends here, um, he messaged me asking how my job applications were going because he was struggling 'cause he identifies as non-binary and it was not an option on the job application. And he said, so I guess I don't exist. So, you know, a lot of the time it's about, um, making the other person feel heard and included as well. Um, the thing with intersecting identity is interesting because, and I see this for pretty much everything. So even within Bangladesh, if you look at it, we have a shade of like light brown to dark brown <laugh>, you know, so even as a country that's homogeneous in terms of race, even then there's like colorism. The whole idea of that, the color spectrum, um, in terms of Muslims, you know, the same way there's the concept of like, oh, there are cafeteria Catholics, there are cafeteria Muslims, if I'm being honest.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:13:39 So even within that, a lot of people, so the moment I say, oh, I'm, uh, Bangladeshi Muslim, I always get asked, why don't you wear a hijab? Because I'm like, you know, there are a lot of head covering styles that go with it. So, the advantage I would say of identifying certain boxes is from a statistical point of view, I love statistics. So, I think, you know, data wise, I'm all for it. But at the same time, if I look at it from a leadership perspective, um, how it become like, the big contention is what can I do to make others coming into my organization or my life, um, feel more welcome? You know, just being, um, open to the idea of, hey, by the way, this person can have multiple things that they identify with. Um, and even within female, um, you know, 'cause I know I was, it was during one of my, during my qualifying examination, I attended the, the, um, you know, where I had woman written as WMXN because that was how the organization had it written down.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:15:03 And I know I had, uh, people in my thesis committee asked, so, and it wasn't even anything, it was after all the data we discussed and everything, they asked, so why is woman spelled that? And so, I had to go through the whole shebang of, you know, we live in a world where we have transgender individuals and so just making everybody feel welcome, so as long as you identify as a woman it’s open for you and things like that. Um, so it's, and also, I think the rate at which we're progressing as a society, uh, it's important to be open to having this not just check boxes, but like, so to say the blurring of the check boxes, um, as a way to educate ourselves. So, you know, when I say all of this, especially um, talking about the L-G-B-T-Q rights, I get a lot of backlash because again, I'm Bangladeshi Muslim, culture, a nation in general that is not open to, um, a lot of these conversations.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:16:11 And what people don't understand is my hometown is as big as state college, Pennsylvania, or actually my hometown is smaller than the Penn State campus. Nevermind. So <laugh>, you know, and it's cram packed with a lot of people and Bangladesh is quite literally as big as the state of Pennsylvania or maybe slightly bigger than that. But then, you know, you come from a culture in a small, small town where you are not taught about a lot of things. And so, when I came in and I was pretty much like thrown into America, I had no idea about a lot of these things. And so, I had to take some 16, 17 years of learning and um, I had to unlearn everything within my one week, and relearn everything. So, I made sure I was at par with everyone around. And that is something that I always tell people is, I understand we have our core and values, but also if you are recognizing somebody else, and if you're trying to make them feel welcome, it only makes you a decent human being. So that is something that is also, I understand that the challenges that come with it for a lot of people to accept and hear others, but you know, it's a two-way street if you are not hearing others know. So, um, that's something, I know that was a long winded <laugh> and, uh, did I make the answer?
Hannah Rosen: 00:17:53 Yeah, I think so. <laugh> And more bonus answers, which we always love <laugh>. So, you've talked a little bit about, you know, these examples of your committee members and, you know, having questions around your spelling of woman and people asking you, you know, as a Muslim woman, why don't you wear a hijab? I wonder, you know, how do these intersecting identities, have you found that they can affect the way that you, um, are viewed by even like, either potential employers or academic admission officers or like, current, like, your PI or your lab mates? How does having these intersecting identities impact the way that you were viewed and the way that they interact with you?
Ramisa Fariha: 00:18:41 Um, that is also something that is very true, um, that I, you know, it definitely skews the way people look at you. Um, and I wasn't aware of it until, um, I would say much later in my career. 'cause when I initially came in, and the whole concept was when I first came into the U.S., it was the, um, I was open to being myself. And when I say open to being myself, uh, my family has always been welcoming, you know, they have always allowed me to be myself. But culturally and just, you know, with norms and stuff, I would always have to dress a certain way, behave a certain way, because that's what a woman's supposed to do. And when I first came to the U.S., I was able to be myself more freely, you know, my comfort where this is my signature style and people notice me from a mile away.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:19:42 But if you see somebody in a WWE shirt, ripped jeans and a bandana, you know, that's Ramisa <laugh>, that's just like, classic Ramisa written all over and just, you go anywhere, even in like, conferences, um, and stuff, they see bandana, they know it's Ramisa, that's just who I am, you know, just starting to be more comfortable as myself. People do see you a certain way and they already have a predetermined notion of who you are. So, if they see somebody in ripped jeans, and I know my PI, and this is a real story and it's a very cute story, and that he once saw me in a ripped jeans and I was working, and he, it was the first time that he had noticed me in a ripped jeans, and he very patiently asked Ramisa, are you doing okay? Are your finances okay?
Ramisa Fariha: 00:20:34 Are you eating properly? And it came out of the blue, so I was very confused. And I said, yeah, why? Because your pants, it’s torn. I, I said, no, no, you don't get it. And the fact that it's a fashion <laugh> wearing ripped jeans. And so, from now on, every time I prepare for a job interview, and it, it's very cute because people, you know, in the department, they see my PI and I, they immediately say, oh, that's a father daughter duo, because we do have that relationship. But every time I prepare for an interview or something, he'll always say, don't wear ripped jeans, <laugh>, comb your hair. Because he knows I'll show up in a bandana. He'll say, dress nicely, wear a tie. And I don't usually have the heart to tell him that, you know, woman, we don't have to wear a tie.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:21:35 But he'll always make sure, and he'll say, don't hug people, because he has been, and again, he's an immigrant himself, so he has been through the whole journey. And so, he's just trying to make sure I don't make the same mistakes or that I learned from his mistakes. And so that is something, I mean, a lot of the time it's funny, but at the same time it's like, wow, that is all I have to adhere to, even today, this is 2024. Um, and that is something I do get truly aware of. And so, I hate wearing skirts. And I know when I was a college junior and, you know, I was trying to prepare for the big Penn State career fair, um, I had to go get a skirt and a suit and I just felt so uncomfortable because I'm just, I just don't like wearing skirts even though I'm a woman.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:22:32 And turns out at that time, and this is, I'm talking 2015, 2016, um, wearing a skirt, it was like part of the deal, like when you show up for the interview you have the suit, the skirt, and everything. Um, and then of course we had the whole pantsuit movement and now, you know, it's more acceptable wearing pantsuits. Uh, but that was something, um, that I was very truly aware of. And also I get, I understand that my name is very ambiguous, but my, you know, in terms of appearance, I'm also very ambiguous in that I'm the darker hair, but slightly lighter skin or like brown, but lighter skin. And people cannot always tell I am like, ethnicity wise or, um, religion or sometimes even, even if they're seeing me in everyday life, they cannot tell if I'm, you know, what I identify as gender wise. And so that definitely gets challenging and especially so when I'm applying for jobs or I'm preparing for interviews, I needed to be overly cautious, uh, to make sure, oh, I'm coming across as a woman because I know employers, especially in STEM fields now are being more attuned to recruiting female employers because women in STEM is a big thing.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:23:56 And so I'm like, oh, I need to appear slightly more feminine. But the truth is, you know, in an ideal world, I would not have to cater to all of that. I would in theory just be myself and be accepted that way. Um, so that, again, I think it's, they call it professionalism.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:24:17 And I get that. And my dad always, my dad's an attorney, he will always say, yeah, you have to be a man of, or personal profession <laugh>, you know, um, and I get that, but at the same time, you know, just it, you're playing by the book that's, there are the rules that are laid out for you, um, but then you come home and you just undress and you're like, okay, now I can be me. So, there's always that part and I think it's gonna be a while that that's how things will stay, um, because not everyone is yet educated or open to the idea of intersecting ideas.
Hannah Rosen: 00:25:03 And I would imagine also that, you know, what is considered quote unquote professional in like, the corporate America world isn't what somebody of a different identity may consider professional. Like, you know, oh, it's professional for a female to show up wearing a skirt maybe, but maybe to somebody who isn't comfortable in a skirt, you would feel much more professional in those pants or, you know, in another culture it might be something completely different that's considered professional versus in the United States. So, there's that added barrier of having to adapt to what's being considered professional in this culture, which may not be what you feel is very professional.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:25:45 Absolutely. And also, for example, in Bangladesh, I know a lot of settings it's professional to wear sari, and over my dead body can I walk two steps in a sari and this stuff's very like ,ungraceful. Yeah, I won't say disgraceful, but it's more like I am a person highly lacking in grace, but you know, I cannot gracefully carry a sari and if I were to be in Bangladesh and work there, it would be so uncomfortable for me. My productivity would plummet down because I won't be able to function, um, as myself. And even when I'm, to this day when I'm interviewing for positions, that is one of the questions I ask is, how professionally am I expected to dress, granted a day I'll be in the lab? Because again, you know, first of all, I cannot wear pencil skirt inside of the lab obviously.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:26:45 But then also if I'm wearing a suit, how does that restrict my motion? Um, I have to have my hair a certain way, how does that impact my overall movement in general? That is something I always consider. So, um, yes, definitely that, uh, being perceived is also, and um, just kinda, sorry going off of a little bit of tangent, I do have colleagues who show up very well dressed in the lab and then, if I know I have a long day of experiments, I will show up in my typical ripped jeans and t-shirt because that's what makes me, um, comfortable. And I know people view us very different. People would say, oh, look at that person, so put together, versus look at Ramisa, not as put together. But I think it has nothing to do with that. It's a lot about what work are you getting done? And I would love for that culture to be normalized <laugh> looking forward.
Hannah Rosen: 00:27:48 Absolutely. Me too. <laugh>. Um, so you know, you've spoken a little bit about your experiences as an international student transitioning to life in the United States. Could you speak to that a little bit more and maybe give, uh, some advice of some things that other international students may want to prepare themselves for before they come to the United States?
Ramisa Fariha: 00:28:11 Absolutely. So that is something I get asked a lot. So those who don't know, I, um, in Penn State, you know, Penn State Behrend, this year I was the first international student to win freshman of the year award when I first came in. And then of course, you know, moving on with all other accolades, um, I most recently just started as the Chair of International Advocacy at the Brown Graduate Student Council. Um, and so I obviously have worked with international students a lot, I have represented them a lot. Um, and so, and I met for quite a bit of them. And what's interesting is, um, again, you know how in the beginning I said there's the whole process of unlearning and then relearning, that is one of the biggest challenges I think international students have. Um, and this was a very important piece of advice that my dad gave me when I first came in because I was so, I don't wanna say lowly, but like kind of one of the many, or when I, when I was freshman, I think I was one of the two Bangladeshi on campus at the time.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:29:24 And it was, you know, part of you would get homesick, part of you would want to speak the language that you're used to speaking or eating the food that you're used to eating all the time. Um, and then adjusting to the dormitory world, making sure that seasoning here means only salt and pepper <laugh>. So, you know, there are all of those nitty gritties. Um, and that is a big shift. That is the big cultural shift for us to learn on top of the education bit on top of making sure we're building our resume, um, we're making friends and we're, you know, just thriving in general. One piece of advice my dad gave me was, if you were to hang out with all your kind, you might as well have stayed home. And that was, and that piece of advice changed my life in general because then later on when, you know, I had more friends, I had a roommate, um, he's Chinese and before he became a roommate with me, he would only hang out with, you know, his core group of Chinese friends.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:30:35 And then after, you know, we were roommates and he saw how I interacted with others, he went to grad school and he made friends from all over the world and he kept thanking me for it, he's like, Ramisa I would've never done this if I hadn't seen you interact with so many people. So I think one big piece of advice I have for everybody is I understand we get homesick, but, and I know we want to hold onto our identities a lot, our origin, uh, story, so to say, you can always be your original authentic self while making friends with people from over the world. That's the biggest advantage that America provides you, is you get to meet people from so many different ethnicities and backstories and, you know, religions and gender identities that you won't get anywhere else in the world. And that is something I thoroughly enjoy.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:31:35 Um, it's definitely, it's not an easy transition. It's definitely not an easy transition, but at the same time enjoy the process. The, you know, the moment you start realizing that you are part of diversity is when you see diversity around you. And one way of doing that is, um, just what you're, you know, when you take a picture with your friend, what does that look like? And it is, and that it was not something that I was aware of until I came to Brown University, I'll be honest with you. Um, because, you know, all my friend circles just happened very organically and it was, I know it was end of 2020 when I had a one of my friends over at my apartment, um, and we had this whole like table full of desserts. So, we all went out to dinner and then we came to my place to hang out for desserts, and it had an array of sweets from all over the world.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:32:39 So we had, you know, Indian stuff, we had Bangladeshi sweet, we had Baklavas, we had French pastry. It was everything. And that was the moment one of my friends, he said, wow, the, the president of Brown would be so happy looking at this table right now <laugh>, because it was basically a snapshot of what the world looks like if it were described by desserts. And so, and that again, it was not intentional. I didn't ask any of my friends to bring anything because I was like, oh, I got dessert covered, I just like, cooked all day and I made all this food dishes. But they brought it 'cause they wanted to. And that was the very exact moment when I became very aware how, you know, a mixed bag of people were surrounding my life and how I'd learn from everybody all at the same time.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:33:40 I was still myself at the school. Um, and so that is one thing that's very beautiful about being an international student in the US is you learn so much and you are open to so many new experiences. Um, and that's definitely, I would encourage everybody to do that. So, while you can make mach pot at home, which is fish and rice in Bengali, and I'm saying that 'cause I just made some fish rice <laugh> not a couple days ago. Um, while you can do that, you could also make spaghetti and meatball and something using Nana's recipe from your friend and that's completely fine too. Um, and so I think it's about just the whole like, learning aspect and being open to experience.
Hannah Rosen: 00:34:35 Yeah, that's such a beautiful sentiment. And I think true to everybody, even people who were born and raised in the United States, like, take advantage of the cultural diversity. Like, you can learn so much without ever leaving the United States about other people's cultures because we do have so much diversity here. And so I really, I really love that.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:34:54 Exactly. Like my Spotify have music from like, music in 15 different languages. And I know we were cleaning my office before Christmas, and I had the whole playlist on shuffle and one of my students, she's Haitian, and she said, Ramisa, what does that song mean? I was like, I don't know. And she was like, but it's on your playlist. I said, yeah, but I don't know. I heard it at a friend's wedding and I think it's like a Ghanaian song. And I was like, I love it. It's very goody, it's very catchy. So, I have it on my playlist. So, and it's, you know, that's how you just have things infiltrate in your everyday life.
Hannah Rosen: 00:35:37 Why do you think that it might be important, you know, kind of to that extent, to people who maybe don't consider themselves to be part of a minority group in the United States, you know, maybe people who were born and raised here and uh, you know, don't consider themselves as outsiders or you know, some sort of minority. Why is it important for all of us to be considering these, uh, diversity, equity and inclusion activities in the lab?
Ramisa Fariha: 00:36:03 Um, this is, again, I think a lot of it comes, you know, like you said, the sentimental piece of it. But I think it is also about being a decent human. That's like the, at the very base of it, the baseline is you are just trying to be a decent person <laugh> at the end of the day. Because if you are not open to somebody else being themselves, can you really be your true self to everybody else? And that is, that is like one of my operating principles in the lab and workplace, um, in my organization, which is I will the first day I'll walk in and, you know, the reason why I'm saying that is I work with the team of gifted, um, undergraduate and master students in my lab. Um, so we are the clinical diagnostics and automation team, uh, and I’m the head of the family and then I got all my kids, uh, one thing that I tell them, you know, the moment someone gets onboarded, I tell them that they're very first day like, look, I'm a Bangladeshi woman,
Ramisa Fariha: 00:37:17 English is not my first language. I was not born here. I have ADHD, you know, I'm a Muslim and, you know, I have all of these other things happening in my life. I have dyslexia and just so you know, this is who you're signing up and I'm going to be myself. And the moment I do that, even though I'm their boss, at the end of the day, it makes them comfortable. I've had moments where students were open about, Ramisa, I can't come today because I'm having a mental health thing and that's completely fine. I would rather have somebody be that level of honest with me than come and, you know, fake something and get a mediocre work done because I know because of the slack, well I wouldn't say slack, but because of the accommodations that I have provided, I've had students who were open to working on weekends who have worked with me past midnight because they know, okay, this is somebody who's gonna have our back.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:38:34 And not just that, I mean, I have students in my team who even though, you know, they have intersecting identities and not just, you know, your traditional way of intersecting in that, oh, I'm a mixed race child or, you know, I have a mixed religious background or something like that. But it was more so here's a person coming from, you know, both minority parents, but then he grew up in a household that had one black and one white parent and how that shaped who he became. And I find that extremely fascinating and I listened to it to the point where one of his siblings, you know, as he's applying for colleges right now, um, he called me up and he said, Ramisa, will you please look at my college application essay because I think, you know, I want to know what you think about it.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:39:28 And it was just interesting seeing his view as well. And so I think at the core it's about you being open to learning, you educating yourself and you giving a space for everybody else and yourself to breathe because we can, we all put a face at the end of the day, you know, we all go out, we all have a face on because it's like, oh hey, how's it going? Great, how are you? You can tell that is not authentic. I would rather have somebody say, you know what, I'm not having a good day. And then tell me how, and this has happened to me personally where I'm just minding my own business walking and someone's rolled down their window and threw racial slurs. And that has happened. And that subsequently impacted how my day ended up being. And I didn't have anybody to ask, Hey Ramisa, you're in a cranky mood, what happened today?
Ramisa Fariha: 00:40:36 But then I make sure I stop and I ask. So if I see that a student is, you know, not at their best, I will make sure and say, and I of course give them the space saying, you know what, if you don't wanna talk about it, great, but if you want to go ahead, I'm all ears. And 90% of the time they'll take the opportunity to talk about it and, you know, we'll hear, we'll talk things through, we'll share experiences, we'll bond over those experiences and then in 10 minutes we're back in the lab and you know, being our productive selves because then the air's been cleared out. We all know what's going on and we are not lashing out on the other person because, oh, here I'm having a bad day, my boss is being a horrible person to me or from what my point of view, oh, here I am trying to pull the whole team together and I have an employee who's performing, um, you know, under the baseline. So, you know, it benefits I think everybody holistically.
Hannah Rosen: 00:41:42 Yeah, absolutely. It sounds like a lot of like, just seeing each other as people who have complex lives and that you don't know everything about and everybody has things that they struggle with and just yeah, being able to relate on that human level. I think we forget that so many times of just, yeah, everybody has their own stuff going on and especially, you know, it can be really difficult if you're just seen as a cog in the wheel and not as a human being.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:42:11 Exactly. And then one thing I would love to add is, you know, the world we live in, we just, we're kind of forced to think that okay, only minority understand minority struggles. That's not true. You know, uh, one of my, you know, I call her my godmother, my American mom and everything. Dr. Madigan, she's the director of, she, she now retired, but she's the director of admissions at Penn State. And she's again a white lady, but she has been nothing but like, my biggest support system since the day I stepped foot in the U.S. and she gets everything that I go through. Even when I had like, difficult moments, you know, I had to work with the police for a certain situation and I made sure, you know, she was on the line with me and she was like, you know what,
Ramisa Fariha: 00:43:09 my daughter needs a female officer to talk to her this very minute, we are not taking this. And just pretty much, you know, going, coaching me through the whole process. And a lot of the times, this is something if, you know, if you are not a minority and you're listening, you'll have the power to advocate for the minority and take advantage of that. Well, that not only makes you a good human being, but at the same time you are just helping people thrive in the system. That is a big part of, I think, you know, it helps you be a better mentor at the end of the day. Um, and again, this is beyond lab, not just, you know, within the world of science, even outside. It's making you a better person, better mentor at the end of the day. Um, and you're helping your position of power to make life better for others who don't have the same power that you can do.
Hannah Rosen: 00:44:15 I mean, who wouldn't want to exercise their power for good is what I wanna know. Uhuh, I'm sure there's people out there, but come on <laugh>, let's, let's be better everybody <laugh>. So, I wanna make sure before we run out of time to give you an opportunity, 'cause I understand that you've been writing a book and I would really love to hear a little bit more about it.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:44:30 Awesome. Okay. So, uh, thank you for asking about of my book. Um, the writing of the book is currently a little bit on pause because I'm working on my dissertation. Um, so keep an eye out for a lot of publications from me, but also my book. Uh, the book is called What the Fari. So, Fari is a shortened version of my last name. So my last name is Fariha, and at home people call me Fari and my best friends, um, they call me Fari. And so, the whole idea is sometimes I'm just like, so, and this is, I'm calling one of my closest friends, he said this to me when I saw him over Christmas break is, you know what Fari your personality is so big, people just forget to, you know, comprehend how intelligent you are.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:45:39 And I had never thought of it until he put those exact words in front of me and I was like, huh, didn't think this through. Uh, but the whole idea is I'm so unapologetically myself, I will do things or say things that will often make people say what the Fari like, not even like, oh, this is something only you can uniquely say or do. And it's, you know, like, and oh my gosh, this is a fun incident, but I once had my keys, my whole lump of keys fall in, uh, trash can, you know, like, the big trash where you dump everything outside your apartment. And then of course I had to go to my landlord and say, Hey, by the way, I dropped my keys in the trash. And he looks at me and he goes, you know, I've been renting apartment to Brown students from for over like 30 years,
Ramisa Fariha: 00:46:42 this is the first time. And, you know, and that's very unique to me. I have had moments where I've been, you know, very nicely dressed, ready for an interview and I have had birds do their business on me and you're like, what the Fari? Like, you know, only things that happened to me. And so basically What the Fari is a book and I call it my unfinished memoir because, you know, I'm only just starting my career. So, so far it's just, uh, you know, it's describing my journey from how I was almost dead. You know, I was medically declared <laugh> dead. They said we can only save the mother or the child and here I am. So from there to where I am today, how, you know, how you just, the story of resilience, but at the same time how being yourself isn't really the worst thing.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:47:44 So that's basically what, What the Fari is all about. And you know, that's the book I'm working on. Um, it's gonna come out, uh, every time I tell my story someone like, yeah, that book needs to be out there. <laugh> <laugh>, I've been told that since I first came to the U.S., it's been 10 years that I've been hearing You need to write a book, you need to write a book. So here I'm finally, so keep an eye out for it. The details will be available on my website. So no, it's happening. It's in the works.
Hannah Rosen: 00:48:17 Fantastic. Well I can't wait to read it, but yeah, like, I mean focus on your dissertation maybe, you know, that's kind of important. So understandable. <laugh>.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:48:25 Also, we have the SLAS conference coming up.
Hannah Rosen: 00:48:29 Yes, we do.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:48:31 That's what I have been working for like, you know, all this whole month. I'm just so excited about SLAS2024 because we definitely have the DEI panel, which I believe it's the first time we're doing it.
Hannah Rosen: 00:48:46 Yep, yep. So, first time we're doing a panel focusing on diversity, equity, and inclusion in the lab, it's gonna be amazing.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:48:54 I know. So that is what I'm excited about. We have a lot of the early career, uh, networking opportunities and I love that because I've been working with the committee for the last year, um, since SLAS2023 and I'm super thrilled. Um, and so, you know, that's been keeping me plenty busy generating, making sure I have good data for my presentations and actually, yeah. So that's why the book's been a little bit sidelined.
Hannah Rosen: 00:49:25 That is totally fair. Well Ramisa, thank you so much for taking the time to, to talk with us today and as we mentioned, Ramisa is gonna be serving as one of our panelists on our, uh, diversity, equity and inclusion in the lab panels at SLAS2024 as well as many other opportunities you will have to see Ramisa at the conference. So keep an eye out for Ramisa and her bandana at SLAS2024 in Boston.
Ramisa Fariha: 00:49:53 And my whole team of students.
Hannah Rosen: 00:49:54 And all your students. Oh, that's wonderful. If you see her walking around, I'm sure you should just have a chat with her. 'cause <laugh>, she is, as you have heard, amazing and has so much information to share. And so, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with us and share some of your just incredible insights.
