Salve Therapeutics Founder and CEO Stefan Lukianov, M.S., joins us to share his intriguing journey from childhood aspirations to his current role in the biotech startup scene!
The episode starts with a lighthearted exploration of Stefan's childhood dreams, from wanting to be an archaeologist to briefly considering a career as a disc jockey. However, science remained a consistent interest, sparked by a memorable G.I. Joe episode that introduced him to the world of DNA.
Stefan shares insights into the unique dynamics of managing people in a startup environment, highlighting the challenges of enforcing accountability and setting job roles. He reflects on the self-selection process within the team, where those aligned with the venture's vision naturally emerged as active contributors.
Full Transcript Available on Buzzsprout
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Salve Therapeutics Founder and CEO Stefan Lukianov, M.S., joins us to share his intriguing journey from childhood aspirations to his current role in the biotech startup scene!
The episode starts with a lighthearted exploration of Stefan's childhood dreams, from wanting to be an archaeologist to briefly considering a career as a disc jockey. However, science remained a consistent interest, sparked by a memorable G.I. Joe episode that introduced him to the world of DNA.
Stefan shares insights into the unique dynamics of managing people in a startup environment, highlighting the challenges of enforcing accountability and setting job roles. He reflects on the self-selection process within the team, where those aligned with the venture's vision naturally emerged as active contributors.
Full Transcript Available on Buzzsprout
Our Sponsor for this Episode
Benchling creates the software that powers the biotechnology industry. More than 200,000 scientists at over 1,200 companies globally — from cutting-edge start-ups to 20+ of the 50 largest global biopharma — rely on the Benchling R&D Cloud as their central source of truth for scientific data, analysis, and collaboration. Benchling is on a mission to accelerate scientific progress through advanced software that's purpose-built for biology.
To learn more, visit: Benchling.com
Take our Survey
We want to hear from YOU to ensure that we keep providing valuable content that reflects what our listeners and the SLAS community are interested in! Take our brief survey
Stay connected with SLAS
About SLAS
SLAS (Society for Laboratory Automation and Screening) is an international professional society of academic, industry and government life sciences researchers and the developers and providers of laboratory automation technology. The SLAS mission is to bring together researchers in academia, industry and government to advance life sciences discovery and technology via education, knowledge exchange and global community building.
Upcoming SLAS Events:
SLAS Europe 2024 Conference and Exhibition
SLAS 2024 Microscale Innovation in Life Sciences Symposium
SLAS 2024 Sample Management Symposium
SLAS 2024 Data Sciences and AI Symposium
Hannah Rosen:
Hello everyone and welcome to New Matter, the SLAS podcast where we interview life science luminaries. I'm your host Hannah Rosen, and today we'll be continuing our series on career trajectories. Our guest is Stefan Lukianov, founder and CEO of Salve Therapeutics. Thanks for joining us, Stefan.
Stefan Lukianov:
Hi Hannah, thanks for having me.
Hannah Rosen:
Our pleasure. So, I always like to start these podcasts off where all good career stories start, which is, of course, what did you want to be when you were a kid?
Stefan Lukianov:
There are a few versions of young professional Stefan, I think at one point I want to be an archaeologist, and then a chemist, and then I think disc jockey at one point. But science was definitely like a mainstay, as I kind of detailed another podcast, it was a GI Joe story arc that turned me on to what DNA is and could potentially do so. I think that that stuck with me for some reason and stayed until high school.
Hannah Rosen:
Oh, that's so interesting. So, it’s the GI Joe cartoons that got you.
Stefan Lukianov:
Yeah, yeah, the Saturday morning, you know, 80s cartoon from I think Hasbro. It had a super villain created from like, historical villain DNA and it kind of turned me on to human cloning. That's my intro to DNA. But besides that, you know, I started doing like, a research project. I think I was in second or third grade with my mom and it just seemed like a really cool topic. You know, stuff we're made of, and so it resurfaced in high school as a potential, you know, major and career.
Hannah Rosen:
I always love how when you can just pinpoint those one little things that kind of first, and you never know what it's going to be, where your entry point is going to be.
Stefan Lukianov:
No, for sure. And it's cool when a nice story comes out of it too that sort of, I don't know, implies innocence and youth.
Hannah Rosen:
I don't know, what I'm kind of getting from that story is that your inspiration was you wanted to become a super villain.
Stefan Lukianov:
Well, you know, there's like, an ethical part to it too, because they couldn't get one piece of DNA that would have made him kind of a good guy. So, it's like, are there genes that can make you good? And, you know, it leads to deeper philosophical considerations.
Hannah Rosen:
Wow, that's a lot for a second grader, I think, to be grabbed by.
Stefan Lukianov:
Yeah. No, I came from a different background I guess.
Hannah Rosen:
Well, so, you know, you mentioned that you were working with your mom on this research project. And so, can you speak a little bit to, you know, throughout your education, have you had people in your life who have kind of really guided you or had a significant impact on your career trajectory?
Stefan Lukianov:
Yeah, I think definitely my mom. I could really decide what to major in when I was in 11th and 12th grade and I'd had classes in like, human anatomy and physics and chemistry that I liked, but I wasn't sure how to combine them. So, when we started looking for majors, she suggested like biochemistry or molecular biology. Because about that time, the Human Genome Project was concluding so that was, you know, big news in the headlines, obviously. And it seemed like a pretty adequate combination of all my, you know, academic interests that have been developing. Like, I was good at math, but I wasn't like a superstar. So, I think it was cool because it was like, technical and observational, but not math heavy, so it worked out. I went to U Maine for undergrad, did pretty well. So yeah, I enjoyed it.
Hannah Rosen:
Can you speak a little bit more to your college experience? Did you do any research when you were an undergrad student? Were you in any labs?
Stefan Lukianov:
Yeah. So as part of our department requirements, we had to do a thesis project with the department faculty. And so I spent junior and senior year in a dictyostelium lab, a slime mold lab, just cloning, you know, genes using sort of simple E. coli techniques. It was good because it got me introduced to, like, hardcore lab research early on. Pipetting, you know, something as simple as that could be kind of like, it acquired traits so it definitely, you know, prepared me. I liked my professor, he was sort of a long-standing faculty member there who went on to become department head. And his lab was the most popular in terms of, like, people joining. So, we had probably, you know, 20 people and like, next to no funding just because it wasn't really a huge research university, but it kind of became a family in that way where we would just all hang out and like, you know, kind of do our stuff and then he would be sort of the gentle shepherd above us. So, it was a good experience because like, between the classes and that lab work and really, I think, made me into an effective, nascent scientist.
Hannah Rosen:
Yeah. Do you feel like that experience impacted how you viewed laboratory science in terms of your career? Like, did you come out of that experience thinking like, oh, man, this really isn't for me or like, oh, maybe I do want to Be a laboratory scientist?
Stefan Lukianov:
Yeah, I definitely maybe want to do it even though nothing really worked. It was still fun to be in the lab and fun to have that contemplated environment. The one thing about U Maine was it was sort of out of the way. So, it wasn't really part of like, what I'd call big ticket, high profile, you know, research university. And so, the sociology of, like, larger science was kind of unknown to me and then when I got to like Harvard or Pitt, it was a little bit of a culture shock, I'll admit to go from a much smaller school to a larger one. But I think like, the technical skills that I developed, you know, maybe effective and I got published. So, the undergrad experience worked out.
Hannah Rosen:
Yeah, that's great. So, what did you do after you finished your undergrad?
Stefan Lukianov:
I went straight to a PhD program at Harvard actually. And it was kind of a rare event, I guess, because most people from my program didn't apply to programs like that. It was a bit of a long shot. But given what I was taught during the program and how well I absorbed it, I did really well on this subject GREs that were available back then. They're not around anymore, but I think that, plus like, some other experience I had at a lab in Boston was really the tipping point. Plus, you know, GPA. I actually didn't like being a grad student. I've tried a few times, and I like being a scientist, but I kept getting distracted by business, honestly. Like, really early on too, because as soon as I got to Harvard, I started reading like, Business News really heavily. And this was, I think, back in 2006 and 2007, before everybody wanted to be a founder. And I didn't even know that that was a possible like, track for somebody in biotech because it wasn't really advertised.
But I just, I think what really bugged me about the lab was like, I always start thinking like, is there a better way to do this? Is there a better like, technique that could be invented? Is there a way to automate this? You know, because it all seems really slow. I mean, I got published and I did well experimentally, but I didn't have any focus to really like, commit to the full PhD. So, I mean, I have a couple of Masters for that reason, but they're in disciplines that contribute pretty significantly to like, our business. And I think the idea of like, a masters versus PhD is kind of inflated now a little bit like, what's a PhD now would have been a Masters I think like, 100 years ago. And so, the sort of lens of education has been magnified to the degree that like, more paper equals like, more, you know, actual content, which I don't think is always true. So, I think I got enough to start a company that's running OK right now for a first-time company. I might try to get my PhD if I found like, an advisor who fell in love with us and fell with our company etcetera, but it's not like, you know, a huge priority.
Hannah Rosen:
Yeah. Yeah, I'm curious. Do you feel when you kind of are navigating the biotech world, do people treat you differently, I guess, for not having a PhD or is it something that really is a non-issue?
Stefan Lukianov:
I don't really run in, obviously, circles that are like, Merck size or Pfizer size or anything like that. When I go to like, conferences as a startup to present or to, you know, show a poster, I don't really get any sort of feedback from people as like, you know, what’s your PhD or like, who did you do your PhD with? It's more just like, the company and the content speaks for itself. So that never really comes up. And I think it's a weird phenomenon to see like, PhDs who've done postdocs like, doing sales for like, a sequencing company, you know, what I mean? Or like, a bio physics company which might not relate to their PhD at all. And they probably didn’t think they're going to do sales either. And then for me as a founder, not having a PhD and doing something that like, I knew nothing about that. To learn a lot about on my own, I think it just kind of shows the nature of education could be much more versatile and varied and think about, you know, you can self-teach and as long as I think you're disciplined about it and have like, precise methods, you can cover a lot of ground without like, a formal context.
Hannah Rosen:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think that sometimes it just comes down to convincing other people that you have that knowledge and the PhD is almost, I wouldn't want to call it a shortcut by any means, but it's a very easy way to say like, here I've got the paper, I know what I'm talking about. Whereas if you're self-taught or, you know, gone through other means, it can be a little bit more arduous to prove that.
Stefan Lukianov:
Yeah, I think that's definitely true. And it also becomes more yours too. Like, I mean you have to build the argument to show why what you're building or what you're studying makes sense. Why you're the person to do it, and that's really packaged into any story you have to tell customers or investors. So, you're automatically like, the salesperson and the researcher and management. And I think that's, I like doing that because it sort of fits with my interests that developed in business and science in grad school. And so it just fits for me right now.
Hannah Rosen:
Yeah, it definitely seems like there's a personality type that just draws people into entrepreneurship of just having that ability to sell yourself, your products, the science.
Stefan Lukianov:
Yeah, kind of crazy. It's true, yeah.
Hannah Rosen:
So, I noticed, you know, you've done, in addition to all of the studying you've done and your business, you also have quite a bit of teaching experience as well. So, could you speak a little bit to, you know, what got you interested in teaching?
Stefan Lukianov:
It was kind of by accident. My first teaching experience was an O chem TA position I had in undergrad. Just setting up lab experiments, you know, learning lectures before them. And it was cool because, like, the younger students kind of looked up to you and, you know, I enjoy being asked for help and helping, you know, them to figure stuff out. For public school I had sort of some gap years between grad programs where I was a substitute teacher in my home district, and I really loved it because it was like, flexible, it was nostalgic. So, I got to see like, all the schools that I went through, you know, as a kid. And it also felt kind of like a public service, you know, you're getting back to the town that raised you and made you. And I'm still like, very close to sort of my home community in a way. It made me love the process of, like, being in a public didactic setting., I think I'd still prefer even, like public colleges over like, private ones for that reason. Just because the mission is something I identify with, like trying to foster the common good, trying to improve like, the general welfare of the population. Yeah. I mean, since then, I've done like, tutoring gigs, small class sizes, contracting mostly. It's a bootstrap for the company, but also just because I like it and I think one of the things that I'm probably best at. It also helps like, improve your communication skills for the business because, you know, breaking things down for like, 7th or 8th graders in science is a lot like talking to investors frankly. Like. It just helps with like, that patience, that sort of methodical presentation of your story to keep people's attention, and it's good training.
Hannah Rosen:
Do you ever feel like, you know, I feel like so many times, especially in the business side of things, there's a sense that you need to completely dedicate your life to this new business when you're starting, you know, creating a startup and like that you have to, you know, eat, sleep and breathe your new business if you wanted to be successful. But if you're taking time, you know, to do some teaching or some tutoring in addition to running your startup. How does that dynamic play in and, you know, how did you come to decide to kind of carve out this time so that you can kind of pursue your love of teaching?
Stefan Lukianov:
I think the expectation that most people have of founders is that they work full time on the venture, which, you know, it's prohibitive because you don't make any money at first. And I started with no money, so that was kind of, you know, naive of me and that therefore led to teaching being part time. But when I realized that the teaching was almost like a hobby in addition to being a job and that it sort of cleansed my soul in a way that that the startup didn't. It was just a good complement to like, the private sector work. People respected it. Like, they would see that I'm a teacher and sometimes be more interested in that than like the founder stuff. I think because for them it's like a wild, different setting from what they're used to in like, high academia or like, C-Suite, or, you know, a government office. It just it feels like, raw and like, unabridged. I think that's sort of, it just fits me. It's a good break from the company, but it also is compatible with the schedule, so it works out.
Hannah Rosen:
Yeah, it's interesting. It sounds like you're almost getting the same sort of fulfillment as one might get from volunteering, but you get the bonus of being paid. Maybe not a ton, but you're getting some money.
Stefan Lukianov:
Yeah, for sure. That's totally right. And I have volunteered in the interest of like, moving on to paid positions. Like, I haven't had any sort of apprehension about that. But yeah, that's mostly the sort of fulfillment, but the service aspect that is the draw.
Hannah Rosen:
So can you speak a little bit of your journey to becoming a founder of your startup Salve Therapeutics?
Stefan Lukianov:
Yeah, it was pretty accidental. COVID hit and with it the advent of the webinar and sort of accessed information and the way it was presented became a lot more wholesale than it was before, I think. And so I had a degree in neurology and I had a degree in biochemistry kind of related to drug design, but I wasn't like, thinking should I start a company? How should I start a company? It was kind of the reverse where I had an idea for a cell and gene therapy basically made from a virus, and then I was like, alright, well, how do I like, make this? What do I do? And then I was like, oh yeah, you can just make a startup like, let's go buy some milk or something like that. And then, I was in Boston at the time, and that's what most people were doing with, like, their graduate degrees was starting companies in Boston. It's a good place, you know, it's saturated market and you usually get bought up pretty quick. And it's not quite a center for cell and gene therapy, but it does have a lot of companies that dabble in it.
I think what made me different was I had some experience as like, a PC hobbyist, so I knew a lot about hardware. I can't code, but I did some sort of like, drug software development at the end of my last masters and I realize that like, there's no standardization to the field like, everybody kind of has their own suite of like, preferred programs or they make them or they like, get web apps that are open source and unregulated. And I think with that being the case, there's no definite process for like, a layperson to make a drug virtually, which would be helpful because then they, you know, everything about it is physics and chemistry. And so there should be nothing prohibitive about, like, testing these entities in virtual settings easily. I knew a little bit about CAD program, so our sort of flagship IP is called VirCAD, or Virus computer aided design. And it's basically a CAD program that follows the central dogma molecular biology to allow researchers to build a virus based on like, each level and customized, so like, genome structure mechanism, et cetera.
When I realized that if you had a program like that, you could sort of like, survey viral space much more quickly in silico, so cost effectively, and then go from like, hit to lead virtually and bring that into the wet lab for like, validation and testing. And since like, the virus is pretty defined since like, things like enthalpy, entropy, affinity, etc. are pretty well defined, you know, there's a lot of tools that can be sort of repurpose into packages that you can model and simulate these things on, it should be possible to make a product that that can do that and allow researchers to build such entities. And what I had to check first was that, well, I mean, overall I realized that that whole process was more, again, sitting for a company or a startup, to scale it than, you know, going to their academic labs. So I think that's when I shifted from like, you know, academia to the private sector.
What I had to check first was whether the hardware technology existed to run the sorts of simulations that I was considering. I had seen some labs in the past use desktop, getting machines to run, you know, transporter simulations or like, membrane type stuff, but I wasn't sure if like, how far it had advanced since I'd seen that. Invidia has these GTC conferences every, I think, spring and fall that attract a lot of like, life science professionals using their technology and, you know, their experiments. And I met a company there, PSSC labs, out of Orange County. They make basically these things called high performance computers, which are like parallel CPU and GPU desktop units, like many supercomputers that you can apply to life sciences. And I asked them, you know, can your computers like, run the stuff that I'm thinking about right now? And they said, yeah, we've done it with like, chemistry labs at Harvard and MIT, so that was pretty cool. And then I gained more confidence in the idea. I sought out IP protection for it and then started advertising the company a bit more. This is all pre incorporation, but that sort of came around the idea too. It worked. Like, we got a lot of buzz and attention, we have a good sort of investor network prepared for when we have product that's adequate for their investment, which is what we're sort of focusing on right now. So, it was a linear process, but definitely unanticipated, unexpected, and brought together a lot of sort of formative science experiences that I had in academia.
Hannah Rosen:
I'm curious, you know, as somebody who came from a purely science background with no formal business training, were there any specific resources that you used to kind of help navigate the process of creating a new biotech startup?
Stefan Lukianov:
It's funny. When I was at Pitt, I read Economist pretty routinely between experiments, and at Harvard the Wall Street Journal. I didn't read anything too specific to biotech or startups or anything like that, but I think both put me in like, an economic corporate mindset to have the confidence to like, know about intellectual property and know about pitching and investment in the stock market. So, I felt sort of business minded as I was being trained in science automatically. I've probably done more as a Harvard alum than as a student, and there are a lot of good clubs that you can go to, like the Harvard Biotech Club, the Harvard Graduate Student Business Club is another, that have like, webinars and workshops and all sorts of events that can kind of increase your business acumen and point you in directions that you wouldn't have thought of. So I did a mini MBA through the Harvard Graduate Business club, and it was good. It was, you know, it was like, I think I moved out of Boston, I was in Maine off the grid for a summer, building up the sort of foundations of the company and the ideas that I was having, and I was doing the mini MBA at the same time like, from a laptop in my car to charge it.
And then like, a science writing course through the American Society for Biochemistry, Molecular Biology. And there's still videos online of like, the products from those courses, but every week, the mini MBA had like, a different business topic that they would cover with a real Harvard Business School professor. And doing case studies and, you know, meeting other people who were like, more in business than I was, was really helpful to keep solidifying, you know, the ideas for VirCAD and the ideas for Salve. And then that led to our first pitches in September 2021, one being through a Harvard Business School class called Lab to Market and another through this organization called Start Up Springboard, which we still keep in touch with investors who notice us back then to this day. It's weird how it's had, like, a very orderly and logical procession to it. Being entirely virtual has helped too, because that it sort of exists and runs whether I want it to or not, it kind of all formed up around like, one nucleus or another gradually.
Hannah Rosen:
As someone who has experience both in, you know, formal educational programs like, you know, masters, undergrad, PhD programs, versus these sort of maybe less traditional ways of getting training of like, continuing education training through these alumni programs and others, you know, do you have any thoughts on maybe the advantages or the disadvantages of choosing one method over the other? You know, of getting this sort of mini MBA versus going through an official and like, you know, full MBA program at a university.
Stefan Lukianov:
Yeah, I think, kind of like I was saying before about a PhD now being what a masters was back in the day, I think the same counts for business. Like if you imagine back to like, your grandparents generation before, a lot of people owned their own small businesses just from product development. You know, they took what they had, they made something novel, even if it was from their culture or their religious background, and they sold it. Like, not in like a derogatory way but, you know, they're sharing their experience and trying to make money. And it doesn't seem like people had as many apprehensions about that back in the day as they do now, and there wasn't a formal process, so it was kind of a pioneer, but also like the kind of instinct for business, the idea of like, growth to productivity and marketing, it's sort of, it's instinctive. You know, there's like a natural quality to it that just comes, you know, to humans as a matter of course, I think.
And so, I think in some ways now we're over formalizing it and over mandating what steps you have to go through to do this or that. Like, a startup is not the only form of business that like, a young new person can start. Like, if you just started like, a small business and you're only worried about like, product development and customer acquisition, and not going as fast as possible, then, you know, you can do your own thing perfectly fine under the radar and then, you know, still do some cool stuff. I think a lot of companies in Massachusetts and the tech space over the past few decades have kind of mimicked that parallel. They weren't like, base startups, but they were definitely like, you know, effective tech companies, and every sort of scion, I listen to says, you know, the point I really want to get to is having confidence in yourself and being able to like, make your decisions on your own without too much like, doubt or apprehension or second guessing. And that just sounds like you're turning to where we were before, you know. Like, where you have somebody in, you know, I don't know 1920s Queens, NY or something starting a market, and then it has to succeed otherwise like, you know, their family doesn't eat. And there's no map for it, but they still do it anyways and they do it, you know, based on that instinct, based on that sort of refined decision making process that they develop as part of just doing it. So, I think maybe there needs to be some sort of return a little bit to, not like an anti-corporate, but like, little more of a pre-corporate model where like, you know, the imperative isn't just to build up to sell to somebody else. Like, that seems a little bit boring, frankly.
Hannah Rosen:
Yeah, I think that's a great insight into the process because I know, yeah, for me, as somebody who isn't particularly business minded, I've always, whenever people talk about creating startups, it's always like, well, I wouldn't know where to begin because it's like, you know, there's got to be all these processes in place and that you have to do things in a certain order and you have to know how to do this. And yeah like, the way that you explain it, it's like, ohh yeah, no, you're right and it's just kind of, a lot of it is common sense.
Stefan Lukianov:
I think the most important thing to know is law actually, because nothing in business is outside of the purview of like, the power context. So for me, knowing a little bit about intellectual property, even enough to like know when to apply for protection, that opened up sort of the confidence to pitching to customer outreach, to everything we did. And we still have that protection to this day. So, it's like, I think some people think of business as like, trying to avoid the law or trying to find like, tax loopholes or offshore accounts or something like that. But it really does pay to like, know the rules of the game, not to like, you know, gain the game, but to use them for your own benefit and to make the structure of your business more solid based on, I mean, that's why you choose like, one region over another for your business in a lot of cases, or one street over another. So I think that that can be learned because it's been around for, you know, since Puritan times, pretty easily and then combined with that instinct or that drive to create something is probably all you need.
Hannah Rosen:
I mean, to that end, were there any challenges in creating a startup that you hadn't anticipated that you've encountered?
Stefan Lukianov:
Yeah, I think, you know, I worked as like, a lab manager in academia running mouse colonies and ordering for people, making sure they have what they need and being like a liaison between them and the professor, but managing people in the company is totally different and I'm not like, a power monger or like, you know, I'm not like, a type A personality. So oftentimes I think I under manage people and I don't like to be as assertive as I should, and maybe things won’t get done for that reason, and that can sometimes lead to like, what I feel is a little bit of aimlessness in the venture where we're like, OK, what do we do next? Often times I'm not sure because it's like, a venture and it's my first time, so I'm still kind of like, learning. It's actually hard to manage people for me, because there's no way to really enforce it. Like, if you're not paying them, and if there's not really a defined position because it's a start up, like, how do you actually hold somebody accountable for like, not doing something, and how do you even set job rules when everybody can be a C-Suite member from the start? So it's like, at least this vagary that's kind of, you know, concerning at times. What I've also realized is that if I try to like, improve as a CEO and get better at that role and also kind of like stay confident in my decisions, then eventually it attracts like, the right people to the venture and now I think we're about 10 or 12 people who are like, really active and then really doing stuff because they enjoy the projects and they have fun with it. And we're following the normal course of like, product development, customer outreach to possible investment. That is the touted ideal for a startup. And I think that's just, you know, eventually I had to start like, getting tougher a little bit, but as I got tougher, I realized that the people who stuck around were already like, doing quite a bit so that it worked out.
Hannah Rosen:
Yeah, it sounds like it's a process of a little bit of self-selection almost if you have people who aren't there specifically for the money yet, you know, presumably the money will come, but it can be tough because, yeah, I understand that if you've got people who are volunteering, you don't want to, you know, you want to be respectful of the fact that they're giving their time, but sometimes you got to bring down hammer a little bit.
Stefan Lukianov:
No, for sure. And I think that's, I mean, I think sometimes people join startups for the wrong reasons or naive reasons or like, very conceited reasons in a few instances. And I think that, again, the main metrics are like, productivity, and the law. Like, you can take equity from somebody if they're not producing what you sort of agreed upon, and it leads to a lot of acrimony. But it's also like, realizing the venture is like, an entity beyond me and independent of anybody else was sort of eye opening too. It's kind of like a new baby, a little bit. You kind of quickly realize that like, this baby needs to survive and other people can already like, take care of themselves so like, they're not my priority. And I also like, this is probably just me, but sometimes I think people join startups for like, almost pseudo religious reasons. Like, they want the impact they want, the mission, they want the social awareness and all that, which is great. But I think it's automatic to like, the product development like, you already are addressing a pain point by what you're building in a wider customer base that will serve and will help a lot of people, and I don't think attention grabbing for that is productive because it kind of distracts you from like, the actual building. And it also can compromise it too like, if you start talking to like, the wrong people who might take the idea from you. So, I think for that reason I'm a bit more introverted as a founder and like, I go to a lot of events to like, build a network and showcase our ideas. And we're in cell and gene therapy for rare disease, which is like, quite impactful. I think I'd try to be like, very careful about like, not making it personal like, this is not like a belief system, it’s a company. So it kind of helps me stay a bit more disciplined I think.
Hannah Rosen:
Yeah, I think that's smart and I think that, that's smart for just employees to keep in mind as well that, you know, it's always, at the end of the day it's a company and you gotta keep that in mind.
Stefan Lukianov:
Yeah. I mean, if they join with expectation of like, that they're like, I can't give as the CEO of the company, just can't give as part of a company, then it's as doomed to failure for sure.
Hannah Rosen:
What advice would you have for any scientists out there who are interested in creating a startup, but maybe don't already have a solid business background?
Stefan Lukianov:
Yeah, I guess just read a lot. Read a lot of the business journals. Learn the terminology, watch a lot of YouTube videos about startups and business in general. And definitely research your idea to make sure there's sort of no precedent for it, its novel, there's a need for it. And just have confidence like, I think it's, you know, you define your measures of success, then you'll sort of always be happy with what you're doing and keep moving forward instead of worrying about how it appears to people, and then that does derive from like, again, what you know about your business. Like, if you know your business well, it doesn't really matter if anybody else does, because like you're the driver.
Hannah Rosen:
How do you define success?
Stefan Lukianov:
I think, production. That sounds like kind of Robber Barinish but like, the sort of trajectory was I moved to the West Coast to advertise our project and hire talent that could build it because I couldn't. And it took a while to do that, you know, probably about a little over 2 years now, but it worked and now we have like, a really decent coding team that's either for credit or for equity or volunteer that is building. We planned out, you know, 2 1/2 years ago we've had a zero burn rate pretty much the entire time we've pitched, but it was never like with any seriousness to getting funding because we had no product demo, but the idea was so compelling that it generated buzz in investors who are still looking at us now, as I mentioned before. I think that determination and that sort of, you know, perpetual pushing forward is what has made us, I guess, successful in our own way so far, and that like, we know to build something with nothing essentially, and it's already attracted the attention of like, potential acquirers like, it's already attracted, you know, much larger company attention. And my hope, maybe a little bit naively, is to like, get away with producing what we're making without getting any sort of, or requiring any need for like, venture capital, just because I want to keep like the ownership in the workers hands and sort of a Proletariat fashion. But that philosophy is what keeps me going, keeps me thinking more successful, independent of like, other metric. And I think people respect that.
Hannah Rosen:
Yeah, that sounds like a great vision and I really hope that you're able to follow through and see your vision all the way. Yeah, well, Stephan, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been a really interesting conversation. And I know that I speak for myself, but I'm sure all of us are really excited to see where you and where Salve Therapeutics goes in the future.
Stefan Lukianov:
Yeah. Thanks very much to you and SLAS. I really love your organization. We've presented a bunch of times at conferences and we look forward to doing it in the future and yeah, thanks. Very much for having us.